Topic: CD Article: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid

[Autos_Editor]

Hybrid Long-term Test Wrap-up:

After 4,900 kilometres, CanadianDriver's Honda Civic Hybrid long-term test car returned a combined 6.1 L/100 km (46 Imperial MPG), reports Paul Williams. That included some pretty severe winter driving conditions in very cold Ottawa temperatures.  Even so, "there were no service issues at all and the car ran flawlessly from Day One," he says.    More...

[widefire]

Great article, but you can retrofit the stereo system even with Honda parts.

"Some buyers would probably appreciate an optional high-end system, as you can't retrofit an alternative into the Civic Hybrid's dash."

https://www.hondapartsdeals.com/honda_parts_list.php?hp_queried_components=0&hp_series_id=2735&hp_series_model=CIVIC&hp_series_year=2006&hp_series_door_ext_grade=4DR+DX&hp_series_transmission=5MT&hp_series_slsareacd=KA&hp_system=G&hp_component=B++3710

The stereo is in fact a 2 din standard radio. So you just have to order the empty front plate and you are done. It's the same plate that is used for the CSX with NAV option. I have also saw on another forum someone that retrofit a Pioneer Avic unit in a 2006 Civic and it looks great.

But all in all, pretty good article!

[Prius]

6.1L/100km? I suppose that is good considering how cold Ontario winters are 

It's a pretty good car for what it's worth, especially after the nearly $3,000 price drop. It may not be a full hybrid but at least it gets more people into the hybrid fold.

[Mike]

Not only is the mileage terrible, but it is also far from the manufacturers gov't ratings.  This is an ongoing issue and until the gov't test is changed, why do journalists continue to make excuses for these hybrids?  Do your job Paul and inform the buyer they have little to no payback with these cars.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I agree the mileage is nothing to write home about, but Ottawa isn't the place to be driving a Hybrid unless you're jammed in traffic everyday. Someone needs to drive this thing in urban traffic / rush hour alongside something else and report back. That's the only place the hybrids would shine to me.

[Agiledood]

The US Civic has a Nav option and can read audio from SD/CF cards. Wonder why they left that option off the CDN version.

[rovermark]

i'm unimpressed with that mileage. these hybrid cars are just a pure marketing tactic for toyota and honda...the europeans are right. while you could easily buy a diesel today with higher milelage, why does the government and auto journalists continue to write about these cars as if they were the future? there is nothing inherently honest about the Japanese - it's just pure marketing.

what is the advantage of a hybrid at highway speeds? what's the advantage if the cost in manufacturing these is substantially higher (more resources needed)? how about recycling? what about the longevity? can you drive a hybrid for 200,000km as you could easily do with a diesel?

i'm waiting for the hybrid backlash to start. it's already starting to take place in the US where hybrids are allowed to drive on HOL is some cities, and offer no benefit whatsoever.

Death to the hybrid.

what we really need is to get into the diesel mode - and improve on these engines.

[Howswedeitis]

i'm unimpressed with that mileage. these hybrid cars are just a pure marketing tactic for toyota and honda...the europeans are right. while you could easily buy a diesel today with higher milelage, why does the government and auto journalists continue to write about these cars as if they were the future? there is nothing inherently honest about the Japanese - it's just pure marketing.

what is the advantage of a hybrid at highway speeds? what's the advantage if the cost in manufacturing these is substantially higher (more resources needed)? how about recycling? what about the longevity? can you drive a hybrid for 200,000km as you could easily do with a diesel?

i'm waiting for the hybrid backlash to start. it's already starting to take place in the US where hybrids are allowed to drive on HOL is some cities, and offer no benefit whatsoever.

Death to the hybrid.

what we really need is to get into the diesel mode - and improve on these engines.

You're absolutely right hybrids are a marketing ploy and offer little more than a 'perceived' green image.
Anyone who is serious about gas mileage and is concerned about Co2 emissions should look at the facts.
If the inherent complexity of these vehicles is any indication, reliability and service issues are still big questions.
I find it surprising that nobody seems to mention that the cars' battery pack must be replaced after five years or so...from what I hear that's well over five thousand dollars! To be sure, the diesel option is one that makes the most sense for both the consumer and the environment. Clearly, there is room for improvement in terms of
reducing diesel tail pipe particulate matter (soot) but cleaner diesel fuel backed by stricter federal regulations and further technological advances to common rail diesel technology surely make this platform a far more realistic and viable option.

[Howswedeitis]

i'm unimpressed with that mileage. these hybrid cars are just a pure marketing tactic for toyota and honda...the europeans are right. while you could easily buy a diesel today with higher milelage, why does the government and auto journalists continue to write about these cars as if they were the future? there is nothing inherently honest about the Japanese - it's just pure marketing.

what is the advantage of a hybrid at highway speeds? what's the advantage if the cost in manufacturing these is substantially higher (more resources needed)? how about recycling? what about the longevity? can you drive a hybrid for 200,000km as you could easily do with a diesel?

i'm waiting for the hybrid backlash to start. it's already starting to take place in the US where hybrids are allowed to drive on HOL is some cities, and offer no benefit whatsoever.

Death to the hybrid.

what we really need is to get into the diesel mode - and improve on these engines.

You're absolutely right hybrids are a marketing ploy and offer little more than a 'perceived' green image.
Anyone who is serious about gas mileage and is concerned about Co2 emissions should look at the facts.
If the inherent complexity of these vehicles is any indication, reliability and service issues are still big questions.
I find it surprising that nobody seems to mention that the cars' battery pack must be replaced after five years or so...from what I hear that's well over five thousand dollars! To be sure, the diesel option is one that makes the most sense for both the consumer and the environment. Clearly, there is room for improvement in terms of
reducing diesel tail pipe particulate matter (soot) but cleaner diesel fuel backed by stricter federal regulations and further technological advances to common rail diesel technology surely make this platform a far more realistic and viable option.

[Arthur Dent]

yeah as soon as the long term upkeep costs come to light they will see a decline. Apparently batteries are recycled quite well. Toyota has done rather well with Hybrids - no one comments that their high profit trucks/suvs get lousy mileage.

[johngenx]

I think the new BlueTec diesel technology is a real forward step towards diesels in Canada and the US.  Cars I'd like to see...

1. Yaris "D." - Getting cunder 4L/100km?  Possible.
2. Mazda 3 "D" (3D, get it?) yes, the 3-chassis would still be fun with a torquey diesel and get great mileage too, a area where the 3 is currently quite uncompetetive.
3. Subaru Impreza and Forester "D."  Both would be terrific AWD'ers with a diesel.

What about mini-vans?  I dislike 'em all, but they're practical and people buy 'em.  With them being not-so-mini anymore both in size and fuel consumption, diesel variants would be great.

ALL pick-ups/SUVs should immediately become Bluetec-style diesel.  Imagine the energy savings.

[Ex-airbalancer]

what the story on Blue Tec Diesel Tech?

[johngenx]

BLUETEC: This modular concept, incorporating a raft of precisely harmonised 
measures, brings about a further substantial reduction in Mercedes-
Benz diesel-engine emissions. These measures include engine 
modifications to minimise untreated emissions as well as an 
efficient, multi-stage exhaust-gas aftertreatment process.

[tpl]

In a nutshell:  Urea is injected at a particular point in the exhaust stream.   the Urea carrying fluid supposedly will be easily available.  the bad thing is that engine will go into limp home mode if you do run out... a target for hackers I expect. Whatever Buetec fluid costs it wont be zero.... although the mfrs would get many brownie points by making it very cheap or free for at least a long ( 80,000 km) warranty period

Beware! unsupported opinion:

I bet that initially at least the diesels will indeed produce more pollutants without the Bluetec stuff being injected but no more than today...later, they will be tuned for better perormance/mileage and be much more polluting without Bluetec.  This happened to a certain extent when catalytic converters were introduced

[Prius]

You're absolutely right hybrids are a marketing ploy and offer little more than a 'perceived' green image.
Anyone who is serious about gas mileage and is concerned about Co2 emissions should look at the facts.
If the inherent complexity of these vehicles is any indication, reliability and service issues are still big questions.
I find it surprising that nobody seems to mention that the cars' battery pack must be replaced after five years or so...from what I hear that's well over five thousand dollars! To be sure, the diesel option is one that makes the most sense for both the consumer and the environment. Clearly, there is room for improvement in terms of
reducing diesel tail pipe particulate matter (soot) but cleaner diesel fuel backed by stricter federal regulations and further technological advances to common rail diesel technology surely make this platform a far more realistic and viable option.

battery pack MUST be replaced? where are your sources? The battery isn't like your stupid cellphone or laptop. Those batteries are "abused" by having it fully charged then discharged then fully charged again. That's what we're accustomed to do and hence shorter battery life. Of course the battery companies won't mind since that'll mean you'll keep buying batteries from them.

$5,000? where are your sources? my sources are from owners and they say salvaged ones for the OLD Prius were $1,000 and those Prius already had 300,000kms on them.

Diesels pollute more, even those on low-sulphur diesel fuel. Diesel also have less BTUs than petrol thus 15% more is required to produce the same power.

This is exactly the kind of FUD that people spread. Omg, I don't understand it so it must be bad, expensive and we've got to stop it at all costs!

[johngenx]

Diesel also have less BTUs than petrol thus 15% more is required to produce the same power.

That doesn't seem to matter as diesel engines get far superior fuel economy compared to their gasoline counterparts.  It is possible to have a reasonably performing sedan get 4L/100kms on diesel, but impossible on gasoline alone.  Hybrid tech is required.

I think we need to look at ALL alternatives inlcuding improving both hybrid and diesel technology.  Neither is perfect.

[johngenx]

That BTU statement made NO sense to me.  So...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

The results?  Gasoline has 150,000BTU/Imp-gal and Diesel has 176,000BTU/Imp-gal. Can you please explain how that is LESS for diesel?  I think you've got your facts backwards.

Perhaps your idea is the amount of oil required for production?  That is MORE for diesel fuel...

Here's an article that opines that gasoline has more long run potential than diesel...

http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/04-12/diesel-vs-gasoline-article.htm

The improved efficiency of diesel engines can also help reduce oil consumption. It should be noted, however, that it takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gasoline, so we should really look at how a vehicle does on fuel efficiency in terms of "oil equivalents." Thus, we need to adjust the mileage claims for diesel vehicles downward by about 20% when comparing them to gasoline-powered vehicles.

[safristi]

"And they say salvaged ones were $1,000 from Prius's with 300,000K".....WHO SAY.....??Proof please...

 Many sources say the costs will be 5,000 to 8,000 to replace(Indusrty,car folk etc) and the LAND_FILL issues with those Hi_Tek (nuclear  ) batteries have NOT BEEN ADDRESSED..the Initial prices of Hybrids are LOWER than true COSTS BUT FAR TOO HIGH for all but the wealthy or Greenie..Companies and Govs are subsidising them BIG TIME and they still can't beat a basic Diesel...WHY THE HYPE....POLITICS and the MEDIA IMHO......

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Perhaps your idea is the amount of oil required for production?  That is MORE for diesel fuel...

The improved efficiency of diesel engines can also help reduce oil consumption. It should be noted, however, that it takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gasoline, so we should really look at how a vehicle does on fuel efficiency in terms of "oil equivalents." Thus, we need to adjust the mileage claims for diesel vehicles downward by about 20% when comparing them to gasoline-powered vehicles.

That is the point many people do not realize with diesel - it takes more crude to produce. But there's also more energy in it. And more emissions tho they can be limited. It's a bit of give and take. Still, you're 5% ahead with a more responsive drivetrain IMO. Diesel hybrid would be the most efficient. I would like to see more lightweight vehicle designs and environmental innovations without the use of large hybrid batteries, but hey.

One thing is for sure: Prius battery cost far more than $1,000. But I think they're also lasting much longer than anticipated, basically for the usable life of the car.

[Soleil24]

Personally, I own a Honda Civic Hybride 2006 since february 3rd.

Since then, I went thru 7 tanks for 5,303.7km with a lifetime average so far of 5.2L/100km.
Most of my driving is done 5 days a week during rush our.  (26km commute)

Tank# ---   L/100km
1                5.9
2                5.8
3                5.4
4                5.0
5                5.3
6                4.8
7                4.5

Here is a pic of my last tank.


In addition, 178 owner can't be wrong.  (Source: GREENHYBRID.COM)



I put pictures because unless you are a member, you'll see US MPG values as oppose in L/100km.

I just want to point out here that if you are carefull in the way you drive, you can get EPA number like with any other cars.

Keep in mind that this car in not 1 year old so the average L/100km will go down along the summer.